Shengen

[FlyScot]

As you are probably all aware, from 1 January, 2021 we can no longer visit Tenerife for more than 90 days in a rolling 180 days.  So if you visit for 90 days in the autumn, then go home for Christmas, you cannot legally visit again until April.  The Shengen Calculator at https://www.visa-calculator.com/ can be used to verify this.

There is a group called 180in360 on Facebook who are campaigning to have the rule changed from 90 in 180 days to 180 in 360 days which would ease the problem for many.  Their website is at https://www.facebook.com/180daysvisafree/  There is the text of a letter intended to be sent to your local MP requesting action on the matter.  It may help if readers of the LG Message Board were to write to their own MP using the text of the letter, but please change "France" to "Spain" and vice-versa.  If you have trouble finding the text, please send me a Personal Message and I will forward it to you.

To make it easy to contact your MP there is a website at https://www.writetothem.com  You simply paste the Facebook letter into this, enter your postcode to locate your MP and send it off as an email.

If you think this is a good idea perhaps you could ask others to do the same.  Thanks.

[unhappy]

Couple of problems with this idea, as the EU never listened to what we had to say when we were members I doubt they will be now.

As for the idea of sending your MP an email forget it, when we were stranded in Tenerife last March we sent emails via the writetothem web site to Domonic Rabb & our local MP, guess what we are still waiting for a reply

[FlyScot]

If you don't try you won't get! 

The current situation is grossly unfair to UK Citizens.  EU nationals are allowed into the UK for 180 in 360 days.  This should clearly be a reciprocal agreement. 

There were a lot of more important issues during the Brexit negotiations, which was why this issue was side-lined.  Surely now is the time to remind our elected representatives to bring the matter to the forefront.

I believe the Spanish and French tourism heads will be only too happy to cooperate in order to protect their industry.  This affects Spanish in the winter and, equally, the French in the summer.

[nophead]

The problem is covid means travel is far from the minds of politicians at the moment. It couldn't have come at a worse time.

[FlyScot]

It's never too soon!  Shengen rules will start to bite next January, assuming your 90 day allowance is used September to December this year and that you don't have a summer holiday in Europe.

[pilgrim]

Flyscot, if you are only going to Tenerife, and not in other parts of Spain during the year. I think for instance you could visit in late September, return to UK for Xmas/NY then return to Tenerife and stay for another 3 months. This way you can do 6 months away over winter, just with the break when ur out of the country so as to stick to the rules. In fact I can't see why you couldn't get an evening flight back to Uk and fly back to Tenerife on early flight next morning. But make sure you eat your sandwiches before you land !

[nophead]

No you can't because we are limited to 90 days in a rolling 180 days. So once you use 90 days you have to come back for 90 days.

[pilgrim]

Is it not 90 days in any 180 days?

[nophead]

No 90 in any rolling 180. That is why it is so bad for us swallows. There is an online calculator for people that cant grasp the concept. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

[pilgrim]

Okay, I understand. So basically, if you are in Tenerife for 90 days, you can't return for another 91 days.

[nophead]

Yes this is the last year we can use our property for the time we want to because it only counts after Jan 1st this year.

Possibly we can get a visa but that requires jumping through some hoops, like going to an embassy in person, proving our income and lack of criminal records and getting it all translated into Spanish.

[pilgrim]

Am sure it will simplify, Brexit not a fortnight old yet. To many of us to be ignored!

[FlyScot]

Precisely, Pilgrim.  So I suggest you write to your MP, as I suggested at the beginning of this thread.

[unhappy]

Well I see the EU are now wielding there big stick again, I wonder if any of these Countries realize what it will do to their economy.

Who in their right mind is going to purchase a holiday property when you are limited to when you can use it, we were considering buying a property again, because our cash return in investments is pitiful, now putting 100k into Ernie & spending some in parts of the world we have not seen, more money Tenerife will not see

It is like going to buying a new car & then being told you can only drive it on a Mon,Wed & Fri, the answer is you wont buy it, sadly the property markets will take big hit along with Industry.

[pilgrim]

FlyScot, My MP is Chris Grayling, he's the disaster one. If he got involved the 3 months would probably be reduced down to one month!

[Georgie]

Thank God we have not bought in Holland

They are refusing entry to our ham sandwiches

[blarer]

But the Brits aren't the only ones that buy holiday properties. There will be plenty taking our place probably.

[Samijoe]

Nice,  lighthearted reply, Georgie. Time to start being more positive. Too much doom and gloom. Our trip in February obviously off, but still keeping fingers crossed April might happen. Won’t be taking a cheese and ham sandwich on the plane 😂😂

[pilgrim]

Blarer, the Brits may not be buying much now, for obvious reasons. But when we as a nation start blooming again, I guess 5 - 10 years hopefully! The exchange rate will return to our favour (could be sooner if EU are in trouble (highly likely)), and the pound goes to 1.5 Euros, where it has been before. So that translates to property being 30% less than now. Think the Brits will be knocking on the doors!

[nophead]

30% less but you can only use for 50% less, so still not a good deal.

I think we will be replaced by Germans.

[pilgrim]

Don't think so, look at Japan if you want to see the future of Germany.

[FlyScot]

I have read in a couple of articles that Portugal is considering the possibility of extending the 90 day limit to 180.  If they do, and the EU/Shengen does not veto it, this would be encouraging news.

[unhappy]

The problem is now according to the last figures which are for 2019 because of the pandemic, the Brits purchased twice as much property in Spain almost 15% than any other country, but because of the debt the UK will be in for decades, I would think that figure will crash, at the moment it is 3%

The people at the moment buying appear to be Romainims & Russians, loverly if you want the maffia, people smugglers & slave traders just like the worst criminals in the UK in any part of Spain, having experienced the latter in a complex we owned a property in, it was not a happy time, the rules do not concern them.

The estate agent body along with the Government in Spain agree that property prices could go down upto 20% last year & think they will go a lot lower because of the lack of buyers from the UK

In Tenerife I remember a few years ago looking at PR & Del estate agent sites, look at them now they have loads more properties for sale & they normally take 1 to 2 years to sell.

It is not gloom & doom, all the countries in Europe are going to be in the same position as the UK, mounting debt, massive unemployment, this virus is not going to go away, whatever vaccine they come up with, it will mutate just like flu & be with us for years to come

[retirementkids]

It is pointless contacting your MP, as the UK cannot change the 90/180 rule, it depends on individual countries in the EU.
I wrote to the Spanish Foreign Office in Madrid and to Spanish Embassy in London:-

Hello
 We have over the last 26 years enjoyed a holiday in Tenerife for 56 days before Christmas and then 56 days after Christmas.
 Regrettably we have been told that we will not be able to do that in future, because of the 90 / 180 day rule.
 I have approached the UK Foreign Office and Cabinet Office and they say:
“The Brexit agreement clearly restricts short trip visits to a maximum 90 days within one 180-day period. The European commission says that once the 90 days are up, the person would cease to be a tourist or “short stay” visitor, and would have to apply for a full long-term immigration visa.

However, each EU country has the right to set its own entry terms and could decide to offer an easy, non-work visa in the future.”

Consequently is Spain going to offer a non-work entry visa, for tourists, in excess of the 90 days in 180 day rule.
Many thanks for your help.

I received a reply from both Madrid and London – below is what I received from London which was very similar to the reply from Madrid.
Good morning,
Many thanks for contacting the Brexit Task Force of the Embassy of Spain in London. Regarding your concerns, as of the end of the transition period, British citizens and their non-EU family members who were not resident in Spain before the 31 December 2020 will be subject to all Spanish immigration rules for third-country nationals, meaning any privileges under EU freedom of movement will come to an end.
 
In compliance with EU Regulation 2018/1806 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 14 November 2018, British passport holders travelling to Schengen countries for holidays, business or to visit family members do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day-period, provided the visit is not for gainful activity.  Please note that the 90 days will start counting from the date they enter any of the Schengen countries, including Spain.
 
British citizens and their family members will need visa for journeys undertaken after 31st December 2020 for the purposes of residence, studies for periods longer than 90 days, or work, professional, artistic or religious activities.
 
Further information on visa requiremens here: http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Pages/Visas.aspx

You may contact the Visa Department of the Consulate General of Spain in London: cog.londres.vis@maec.es
 
This response is for informational purposes only and does not constitute an official position of the Spanish government.
Kindest regards,
Embassy of Spain in the UK - Embajada de España en el Reino Unido

Note there is NO visa, at present,  for tourists who want to holiday in excess of 90 days in 180 days.

Consequently there is an urgent  need to contact the Spanish Authorities  and the English speaking Press in Tenerife to pressure for a change.