Shengen

[Tanemera]

I have been researching the impact of Brexit on our bi-annual trips to Tenerife.  Normally we spend up to 90 days in the autumn and another 90 in the spring at our property in Tenerife.  My understanding is that, from 1 January, 2021, the Shengen rule of a sliding 90 days in any 180 day period will apply.  This will restrict us considerably as we also have a holiday in other Shengen countries during the summer and the rule applies to all Shengen countries on a cumulative basis.

I have considered applying for a TIE, but the health insurance requirement makes this impractical (although there seems to be some concession for pensioners).  Also, I think I would have to stay for over 6 months per year. I believe there is a "non-lucrative" version of the TIE which permits stays of up to 6 months but I haven't been able to find out any more about this.  I considered a "Golden Visa" whereby I would be welcome anytime provided I had 500,000 euros invested in property in Tenerife.  Some sources say this doesn't exist, others say it does. 

Meanwhile other sources of information simply say "we shouldn't have voted for Brexit", which doesn't help!

Hopefully, the Spanish and UK governments will come to some agreement to allow Brits to stay for up to 6 months, just as the UK already allows foreign visitors to the UK, but the UK minister responsible says there is no discussion scheduled for this.

Meanwhile, has anyone else on the forum in a similar situation managed to find a solution or have a contact in Tenerife (preferably English speaking) who can give reliable, professional advice on the subject?

[losjack]

Tanemera
If and when you get clarity on this I would be very grateful if you posted details on this site please

[nophead]

I think this year is the last one we can spend up to half the year in one go because time before the transition period ends doesn't count in the Shengen rule, so you can spend 90 days before and 90 days after. Shame it looks like it isn't the winter to be going at all.

[angiebabes]

Speak to PAUL Montague, 647449201 at BLEVINS FRANK. He is qualified,certified, knows his stuff and speaks English.

His advice to me was you either take out residency which covers fiscal residency or you don’t. There are no other legal options. But he is the man who knows. Every one you speak to in a cafe, bar, restaurant knows how to get residency without paying tax as a Spanish resident, but legally you cannot.

Best twenty minutes I spent in telephone conversation with him.

[pilgrim]

Spain may not enforce it! Why would they!

[nophead]

I think because the EU requires them to. Perhaps the Canaries can be different though.

[LucyW]

Can't believe that folk on this forum believe that the Canaries should be an exception to the Shengen rules. This policy was in place prior to Brexit and now lots of people who voted to leave the EU (and crowed about it) are now moaning about the restrictions. "You can't have your cake and eat it' comes to mind.

[Tanemera]

Thanks, Angiebabes, I will try this.

I agree LucyW, comments about Brexit like you quote drive me up the wall!  How does anyone know how I voted anyway?  It is what it is and now we have to find a way to make the best of it.

[nophead]

Well the Canaries do already have some different rules from the EU, for example they don't have VAT, and it isn't in their interest to reduce the amount of time brits can stay economically, but the whole thing has been overshadowed by covid19.  They probably face complete economic ruin now and how long brits can stay is inconsequential.

[pilgrim]

I voted for Brexit like every I know did! So if Shengen is enforced, all the people working in the bars and food outlets hotels etc.. in London and often elsewhere, will have to return to their European home.
I don't think so!

[nophead]

Why? We are outside the EU, so can say how long people from the EU can be in our country but Spain is in the EU, so has to play by EU rules. Wasn't that the point of brexit?

Obviously, I didn't vote for it!

[Tanemera]

Have a look at this article, particularly the last three paragraphs before "Get our Brexit and Britons in France 2020 Help Guide".....

https://www.connexionfrance.com/Practical/Your-Questions/Brexit-when-will-the-90-180-day-rule-kick-in

If Spain were to adopt this policy all our problems (relevant to this topic) would be solved.

[nophead]

Not sure I understand. Yes we can stay for three months before the end of the transition and claim residency  but then we have to pay Spanish tax, which seems horrendous.

[unhappy]

Do you honestly think any EU country that is billions or trillions in debt are going to take any notice of EU rules.

Why should they, they did not before Brexit that is why I voted to leave like the majority of Brits did.

Sounds like some people on here don't like it because they lost the vote, get over it we are out & by the looks of it, because of the EU's inflexibility we will be leaving without a deal

[nophead]

I would think they did enforce it before brexit for non - EU residents. Are you saying they let those stay more than 90 days in 180?

[pilgrim]

I for one am more than happy to leave the EU without a deal. That way we would have full status as an independent nation once again. Yes, things may be a bit tougher for a while, as we move over to existing world trade rules. Let's crash and burn!!!

[unhappy]

Before Brexit & now Coronavirus non of them were on their knees in debt, in fact the UK was doing better than any other Country including Germany.

Now Countries in the EU will be looking after themselves take Spain, if their Government does nothing to bring back Tourists, Shengen or not, they will be voted out of power, it is called the survival of the fittest.

[nophead]

Yes I am sure they will try their best to get tourists back but how many brits spend more than 90 in 180 days here? Are we a significant number worth bending the EU rules for? Especially as we probably don't spend as much on hotels and restaurants as normal tourists do.

[unhappy]

The way things are going in Spain I think they will be glad of any Tourist for however long they want to stay.

I know you like to be a bit frugal nophead, but don't tell me you take 3 months supply of food with you when you fly out to your property, we like to eat out, but we still spend loads of money in the supermarkets even though the vino is a lot cheaper than here.

[nophead]

Yes we buy food and drink in Tenerife and only bring things we can't find there, hot chilli for example. The food is a bit more expensive than at home but the drinks is so cheap the total is a lot less.

We do eat and drink out but whereas we would do it nearly every day when we came for two weeks we eat in quite a lot when we stay for months. It is more like living somewhere warm than being on holiday. So our spending is more like a resident than a two week tourist.

Perhaps they will offer a visa to stay longer and make some money that way with a fee.

[Georgie]

We always shop in lidl off the roundabout and the quality cheap and variety are excellent

They are opening one near us which will be excellent

[pilgrim]

Lidl are building a new UK headquaters building not far from us in Kingston. The site is about the size of a football pitch! Think there maybe a lot more stores to come! Seems Brexit has not put this German company off in investing over here.

[nophead]

Yes we prefer Lidl when we are in Tenerife although Mercadona is nearer for us but it stinks of fish and is more expensive for most things and less friendly, but it has more range than Lidl, so we do get the odd thing there and Superdino up the road from it.

[Tanemera]

I took Angiebabes advice and had a look at Blevin Franks website....

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/brexit-and-living-in-spain-guide

My conclusion is that nobody really knows what is going to happen at present.  The situation is clearer for anyone contemplating permanent residence in Spain and the advice is consistently to do it before 31 December. 

Otherwise I guess we have to wait and see.  At least we can still get up to 90 days up to December 31, 2020 and another 90 from 1 January to 31 March, 2021,  followed by further 90 days from 30 September to 28 December, 2021.  Then the Shengen problem kicks in preventing any further visits until April, 2022.  This assumes no other visits in between to Shengen areas.  So, hopefully, there is time for the situation to be clarified before the end of 2021.

I used the Shengen calculator below to work this out....

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

[Tanemera]

Not sure what Lidl and Mercadona have to do with Shengen.  Am I missing something?

[pilgrim]

Obviously.

[SandyLea]

Tenerife should do what Turkey do. You pay a few grand, you get a few years' residency. Win win all round. If you want a year, it's a lower price, a bit more for 3 years, up to 5 years. Each Turkish town has a sort of mayor who sorts this for you.   You have to show proof you have the equivalent of about 400 quid income each month and that's all that's required. Spain should try it. It certainly works for many Brits we know who've moved to Turkey.

[unhappy]

Can you honestly see the French taking any notice of Shengen, so you have stayed in Spain for 90 days & then you want to go there for a couple of weeks, turning a blind eye comes to mind, they will all want your money Pounds or Euros

[nophead]

Now that passport control is all computerised I think it would be harder to turn a blind eye. Computer says "no".

[unhappy]

Computer might say no, but people will say yes, the French already want to leave the EU except for their President, Macron, also most of the Poles want to leave also, do you think the power player Germany are going to rock the boat, I doubt it.

Countries will do whatever it takes to get their economy moving & many of them are facing crippling debt so bending the rules here & there will not stop them if they want to survive.

We were left stranded in Tenerife in total 4 months, or friends for over 6 months did Spain ask the EU about relaxing Shengen, no they used their common sense & waived the rules, which they will do again to get their economy moving.