Media Player Los Gigantes!

Author Topic: Letting  (Read 32279 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mata Hari

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Letting
« on: July 18, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Has the enforcement of the draconian letting laws had any effect on the village. I notice that all the ads have been removed.
    What a terrible state of affairs. I can`t see a happy outcome for LG when most of the village MUST rely on holiday lets.Such a shame !

    t l c

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Yes - it has had a major impact all over the island. When peole are making enquiries and doing searches for holiday lets in the are there are very few coming up, not good for the local area at all. I don't want to get into a debate (whether it's legal or not) the thing is it must be resolved somehow as things are bad enough without this added burden on owners

    Offline Mata Hari

    • Active Member
    • *
    • Posts: 25
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • I don`t see how it CAN be resolved in the current climate. I suppose the rule will only be relaxed when the powers that be  realise what a devastating effect this is going to have on tourism.
    I have long toyed with the idea of buying my own place. Thank God I didn`t !!!

    Offline janey

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 865
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • and, what the tourism chiefs havent ruined with not letting private owners rent out their apartments to holidaymakers, this fire business will surely finish the island off.

    hello croatia.

    Offline unhappy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 314
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • I dont think people realise how serious this problem is over 7000 owners have been fined in Tenerife many of them will not know they have been fined because if you are not in your apartment or villa to receive the postal fine, they then post it on the BOC. You are then given 15 days to appeal the inital fine which was mainly 18000 yes 18000 euro and these were issued from July 2011.

    We must inform owners & the locals who this will affect the most,because if we are not allowed to send holidaymakers to our properties they will suffer with more unemployment & businesses closing down.

    Some people will be cynical and say we are only looking after our own interests, yes that is true but it is us that have invested millons in to Tenerife because we came here on holiday years ago and fell in love with this Island.

    The touristic office want to turn the Island into a 5* A/I Hotel Resort, where they are going to get the money from is anybodys guess just looking at LG as you drive past the viewing platform into the entrance to the village you pass a derelict skeleton which is next to a abandoned development that has ripped the hillside apart, which is next to the long closed 5* Royal Sun complex, just to do the infacstrusture would cost Billons, plus we would put our apartment against any 5* room any day.

    People have to act now to stop these bureaucracts, one who just happend to be employed by the hoteliers body, BEFORE THEY DRIVE ALL THE TOURISTS AWAY FROM THIS BEAUTIFULL ISLAND

    Offline janey

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 865
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012 »
  • Publish
  •  :'( hear hear!


    Offline Beanie

    • regular contributor
    • **
    • Posts: 74
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Rather than 'Letting', this subject line should read 'Illegal letting' because 99% if not 100% of letting in Los Gigantes is illegal and it seems owners are just not aware of the fact or perhaps they don't want to know! Have to agree with Unhappy as people locally just don't seem to be aware how bad the situation is and how punitive the fines are.  I, for one, stopped advertising my apartment a few months ago but am amazed at the number of on-line advertisements for holiday letting in the area - don't people realise what a risk they are taking?!  You only have to look at the Owners Direct, Holiday Lettings, Holiday Rentals etc sites to see what I mean. 
    As to whether it is having an effect - the answer is definitely yes.  It has been a slow, downward spiral for the past few years and anyone who can remember Los Gigantes 20 years ago like me, or even 10 years ago will recognise it.  It started with the complexes being classed as either residential or touristic - and I believe all complexes in LG are now classed as residential, correct me if I'm wrong.  The residential status meant it was illegal to rent and many stopped letting to holiday makers then.  Now, with the threat of inspectors and very heavy fines - yes, 18500 Euros - even fewer people are renting out and for the moment if they are sensible, they should stop altogether.  (It is also illegal for an individual to rent out on a touristic complex - owners on these complexes can only rent via an on-site agent, so there is no getting away from the fact)
    Unfortunately, the full effect, that is, when everybody has been fined so stop advertising, sell their apartments and go elsewhere, won't be felt for another few years - by which time it will be too late!  The village will only be 'full' when swallows, such as myself, make our annual pilgrimage in January to March - the rest of the year it will be reliant on the few visits, if any, of families of owners. 
    It is so sad and if I were the owner of a local business I would be severely worried.  What is also sad is how little the local businesses seems to know about it!  Perhaps they should read the article in August's edition of A Place in the Sun to get a real grasp of the situation and maybe then, more people will be up in arms about these draconian laws.

    Offline unhappy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 314
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Thanks Beanie,

    This is only my second post but for a time I thought I had gone brain dead possibly club 2 parking & badmington courts are more interesting than the demise of this area. WAKE UP PEOPLE BEFORE IT IS TO LATE!!!

    Offline typo

    • regular contributor
    • **
    • Posts: 54
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • For a second posting you've certainly got the bit between your teeth!

    Badminton hasn't got a G in it and I'm not brain dead!

    I am more than aware of the position of Illegal letting as I own here and my enquiry will allow me to spend money in the area.

    I might point out that although this has reached a head recently it has been illegal to let on residential communities for some years and I was aware of this before I bought. Surprisingly enough I bought my property because I enjoy the area and not for an income!

    Offline unhappy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 314
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Well Typo,

    That got your knickers untwisted, do not asume that we all rent, or require Income.

    As I have owned for over 12 years and have slowly seen this area degrade It would be a shame to see if disapear from the tourist list forever.

    You would then never get a babminGton court 

    Offline losgiganteskid

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 418
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Unhappy & Beanie have joined the forum with a bang, welcome guys or gals (if I wasn't a sceptic I could believe they were two different people !)

    Rather than 'Letting', this subject line should read 'Illegal letting' because 99% if not 100% of letting in Los Gigantes is illegal  -  It started with the complexes being classed as either residential or touristic - and I believe all complexes in LG are now classed as residential, correct me if I'm wrong. 

    I believe the following complexes in/around Los Gigantes are licenced touristic and therefore fall outside the law currently being discussed

    Club La Mar
    Colonial Parque Los Gigantes
    Diamante
    Harbour Club 1 & 2
    Lago
    El Marques
    Poblado Marinero
    Punta Negra
    Las Rosas
    El Sombrero
    Sunflower 11
    Tamaimo Tropical
    Vagilia Park

    Polite message for Unhappy/Beanie - if you intend becoming a regular poster on this forum it might be appropriate for you to treat others with a little less aggression -  do you drive your car with the same mindset ?


    Thanks Beanie,

    This is only my second post but for a time I thought I had gone brain dead

    The jury is out on that one

    I wanted to be the Cincinnati Kid - but couldn't spell it

    Offline Mata Hari

    • Active Member
    • *
    • Posts: 25
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • I must admit to being a little peeved myself at the hectoring tone employed by Unhappy when I asked about the parking situation at Club II.
    Particularly annoying, when I was the one to start this whole thread in the first place !!!!

    Hey- ho. Manners out , aggression in. I`ll just duck out gracefully !

    Offline unhappy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 314
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • My posts are to get people who value the area & want it to thrive to take this subject seriously.

    In the UK this problem has already hit The Mail on Sunday and now A Place in The Sun no doubt more will follow ( dont forget the bulldozing of homes in Spain) & how much Publicity that gained.

    LG and the surrounding areas need tourists to survive if the Govt are not pressured into changing this law we wont need to DUCK it will be as dead as the DODO.

    I think it is worth saving if I ruffle a few feathers on the way at least I hope the message gets through ( Tell the locals this is going to affect them more than us) and "us" is not just Brits its all the other foreigners that have invested their hard earned money here

    Offline Chiquita

    • Old Hand
    • ***
    • Posts: 225
    • Location: On the side of a mountain in Tenerife
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • I think everyone is aware of it.
    « Last Edit: July 23, 2012 by Chiquita »

    Offline unhappy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 314
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • You are wrong, Their are at least 4 sites trying to get this message across to the 7000 who have been fined,because most of them do not know they have been fined because if they are not in their villa or apt to receive the fine by post the Govt just post it on the BOC (try reading my previous post)

    Offline Chiquita

    • Old Hand
    • ***
    • Posts: 225
    • Location: On the side of a mountain in Tenerife
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • You are wrong, Their are at least 4 sites trying to get this message across to the 7000 who have been fined,because most of them do not know they have been fined because if they are not in their villa or apt to receive the fine by post the Govt just post it on the BOC (try reading my previous post)

    Because we have different opinions does not necessarily mean either of us is wrong.  If you wish to be chief campaigner of this cause perhaps you should preview your comments before you post because at the moment I think you are only succeeding in annoying people rather than making them aware of the situation but still that is only my opinion and I could be wrong!

    Or perhaps your raison d'etre is just to ruffle feathers, congratulations, you have succeeded.  ;)

    Offline Beanie

    • regular contributor
    • **
    • Posts: 74
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • I can assure you I am a very separate person from Unhappy and I don't know him/her from Adam!!
    I only joined the forum when I saw the post about Letting, which is dear to my heart at the moment, being an owner renting a so called 'illegal' apartment - which I am no longer advertising.  I think Unhappy was just trying to make people aware how bad this situation is getting and how bad it is for the area and the frustration of nobody taking any notice of the problem is getting us all down.  I'm beginning to think there's no hope as there seems such resistance from people living in the area which I don't totally understand.  Until people get fired up, nothing's going to change.

    stevejclark

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Can someone please reassure me that allowing family to stay in our apartment free of charge is not illegal? I'm really worried that when they go and stay for their 2 weeks in the summer, someone (?) will find out and they will be reported and we will be fined. How do the authorities find out if people staying in any apartment are the owners or otherwise? Hope I'm not being too naive about the whole situation.

    Offline Beanie

    • regular contributor
    • **
    • Posts: 74
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • That is definitely OK Steve - you can allow family and friends to stay.  If you are not advertising it is not a problem as the inspectors are more interested in those advertising on the numerous holiday websites. 

    Offline Chiquita

    • Old Hand
    • ***
    • Posts: 225
    • Location: On the side of a mountain in Tenerife
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #19 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Steve  The problem comes when supposed family and friends stay for say 40 weeks in the year and 'someone' checks various websites and sees that you are charging them a fee.

    I donīt think anyone who is genuinely allowing their family or friends to stay for a few weeks holiday has anything at all to worry about.   So let them stay, enjoy your hospitality and donīt worry.

    stevejclark

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #20 on: July 23, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Phew!! Thank goodness for that. We're just about to hand over the keys so hopefully they will have a good holiday. Can't wait till we come out in September. Thank you for the positive comments.

    Offline typo

    • regular contributor
    • **
    • Posts: 54
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #21 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Hey Ho I'm glad it wasn't only me to get wound up by "Unhappy". Still as usual the site has offered good advice to others who require it whether it be a BadminGton court or info on illegal letting! Long may it continue. Thanks to all, even you Unhappy for the entertainment value!

    Offline Mr Max

    • Old Hand
    • ***
    • Posts: 234
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #22 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • The pro's and con's of the letting situation have already been discussed in detail before.

    Bottom line though is....

    We (foreigners) do not have a vote at national level, so there is precious little chance of anything we do or say having much influence.

    I presume those of you who have been letting your apartments have been paying your tax on the income?

    And, at the end of the day, this has been the law for 16 years - if you were not told by your estate agent about the rules, then take your fines up with them (if they are still here!).

    If you did know, then you only have yourselves to blame.

    Sorry

    See here:  http://www.losgigantes.com/board/index.php?topic=2685.0

    Offline el presidente

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 289
    • Location: Playa Arena
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #23 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Well said Mr Max

    OldGigantes

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #24 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • The post from Mr Max raises a question regarding owners paying taxes within Spain. The authorities say it is illegal to let your apartment but are more than happy to tax you on the "illegal income" from such lettings. Can this be correct?

    Offline Mr Max

    • Old Hand
    • ***
    • Posts: 234
    Re: Letting
    « Reply #25 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Two entirely different issues.

    You should declare income from letting or any other source to the tax authorites.  How you came by this income is of no interest to them, they are a different entity to the tourism authorities.  Tax is collected centrally by Spain, rules on tourism are made locally by the Canarian Government - that's the way it works.

    Worth pointing out that as a tenant of an illegally let property you are not breaking the law - the owner is.  Community presidents are also theoretically breaking the law by allowing illegal letting to go on.

    Worst of all though, and the source of much concern is that as an owner your insurance is invalidated if you undertake letting where it is not allowed - i.e. all residential property, and on touristic complexes (as above) if you do it outside of the appointed agent. 

    Not a problem if your "guests" break a few cups, plates or even your TV during their stay, but if they were to break something more important and chose to seek recompense from you as an owner for their misfortune, you would likely need very, very deep pockets.

    Scary innit?
         

    knightrider

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #26 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Mr Max,
    Letís say for example,
    you have rented a duplex apartment in a residential complex, for a 3 week holiday.
    After only 3 days, you stumble on the internal stairs and fall through an un-guard railed space to the level below, resulting in severe spinal injury.
    The ambulance arrives and immediately transfers you to Hospiten Sur where you spend 8 days being stabilised, before being repatriated by Emergecy Medivac on a specially equipped private jet.
    It seems likely that this serious injury will impair your movement for the rest of your life....
    The apartment is NOT licensed for letting and indeed has infringed the insurance conditions,
    and you have reported the facts to the Police, Guardia Civil and solicitors.

    In your opinion, would the owner be liable for claims against him? and how deep do you think his pockets would have to be?
    I think i can guess your answer but i only ask as this happened to a friend of my sister 3 weeks ago.

    Are any apartment owners who are letting out their property reading this?

        SCARY INDEED.

    t l c

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #27 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • ........................................and so the debate rumbles on and on and on and on and on with differing views all around. Does anyone know if anyone has actually BEEN fined thru the courts, people have been ISSUED with fines but as far as I am aware no one has yet had to pay - maybe someone out there knows. There is also the petition currently being circulated by the abogados (who have formed a 'group' if you like) with a view to try and make amendements to the law, 15,000 signatures & the law has be reviewed. If the law has been around for last 16 years WHY has it never been enforced right form the word go............................that's easy, down to MONEY !! Quite happy to turn a blind eye and get the 'tourists' in but now Spain is in dire straights lets start & enforce the law. I believe it's just the Canaries and the Balaerics who are being targetted as in some areas of Spain 'holiday letting' is legal. Many owners who purchased were totally misguided by the devlopers who ACTIVELY sold as 'ideal for holiday rental', along with agents and lawyers, at no point were told it was illegal, so shall owners hand the fines to them or counter claim thru the courts. I am sure a lot of owners could form a 'consortium' & challenge the developers who 'misold'. This debate, as I said will rumble on and on, so many legal angles, loopholes etc etc, could it go to the European Courts ?? so many things to look at. One thing is for sure, the whole of the Canaries are suffering because of it. People who choose self catering hols will not be forced into hotels and they will be the Canaries loss.

    Caroline

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #28 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • Totally, totally agree with last post.  I love Tenerife and I love Los Gigantes.  I will be so sad to see it disintegrate even more than it has already.  I've been coming for 26 years and have seen a lot of changes already - please don't let my 'happy place' turn into somewhere where no-one can visit (unless you're old enough and don't have kids or.......hmmm).  I hate the ethos of All Inclusive - what on earth can that do for the local economy and the fantastic restaurants in the area???  Plus, not a proper experience of the place you are visiting.

    So sad......  :'(

    Caroline

    Re: Letting
    « Reply #29 on: July 24, 2012 »
  • Publish
  • before I get replies re 'old enough and not having kids'   -   I mean the Hotel!