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Author Topic: Could be Guilty!  (Read 4292 times)

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poolepirate

Could be Guilty!
« on: January 23, 2010 »
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  • I found this story on Janet Anscombe's great news site:

    Juan Dami?n Gorr?n, mayor of Santiago del Teide, has been found responsible for reckless homicide by the magistrate of Court N? 3 de Arona, Mar?a Sagrario Tovar. In addition to the mayor, the municipal technical architect, Celso Gonz?lez Gonz?lez, and chief engineer of the provincial Costas service, Carlos Gonz?lez P?rez, were also found accountable of the same offence. (La Opinion)

    Well. well!

    (I have changed the title of my post so that I do not upset anyone!)
    « Last Edit: January 25, 2010 by poolepirate »

    Offline Mr Max

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    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #1 on: January 23, 2010 »
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  • Hang him (and the others) up by their dangley parts, call an election and let's get this place sorted.

    Offline el presidente

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    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #2 on: January 23, 2010 »
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  • poolepirate,
    I agree Janet Anscombe's site is great for news. Much more informative than 'News in the Sun'.
    I expect Juan Gorrin will have the right appeal. My understanding of the local politics is that if he resigns/stands down, a new Mayor is elected by a ballot amongst the Santiago del Teide Coalicion Canaria councilors. I think there must be 9 or 10 councilors involved.
    We will wait and see.

    raymond

    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #3 on: January 23, 2010 »
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  • Hello Folks,

    I just thought i would correct the original comment.

     The Mayor has appeared in court at the beginning of the case to give his evidence, last week. The judge has considered that there may be a justified reason that a POSSIBLE charge of homicide may be levied against the mentioned councillors. If convicted, it can carry a sentence of between 1 and 4 years.

    The tourism councillor has not even been to court yet, and he will appear on the 3rd February.

    Therefore, a guilty verdict has not been declared against any of the councillors, best wait until the judge makes her descision.

    Raymond.

    orange

    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010 »
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  • The topic title is one of those that could be easily found in The Sun.

    But when you go on to read the article - it never mentions 'Guilt' again
    or the completion of the proceedings...

    Offline Mr Max

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    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010 »
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  • As I understand it, the court appearance is somewhat akin to to what we might understand to be committal proceedings.

    In other words, this stage was to determine whether or not there is a case to answer.  Clearly the Lady Judge determined, on the evidence presented to her that 3 of the 4 HAVE got a case to answer and in due course will have to answer the case in a full trial.  When the 4th member of the Council appears he too will be questioned to determine whether he has a case to answer also.

    Do not underestimate the importance of what has happened so far. A member of the legal system has assessed the evidence and conflicting stories and has determined that, so far, 3 members of the council might well have been able to / could have / perhaps should have, taken action, based on what they knew and the information available to them prior to the event, so as to avoid the tragic loss of life that occured on that day, let alone the impact the trajedy has already had and will continue to have on the single most important business in our area - tourism.  Crucially this includes the man at the top, and as in all walks of life, that is where the buck stops.

    It seems that those who hold the view that a "blind-eye" was turned toward all the warning signs appears to have been confirmed, now it has to be established why those invloved did so - incompetance, brown envelopes, "other interests" - who knows. The good news is that it is now it is most likely we will know as the probable trial will be well reported as events unfold and democrocy takes over.

    Finally, in defence of the guys at News in the Sun - Janet posts her stories as they are reported in the Spanish Press, TV and radio.  What she publishes tends to be a running commentory as is the nature of her site.  She and News in the Sun know each other very well and work closely to ensure that their translations of stories as reported by the Spanish media are as accurate as possible and are updated as facts unfold. News in the Sun tend to wait until facts are established before publishing stories - that is how they work.  Neither are wrong, or right, in the way they operate and neither deserve being criticised for doing what they do in the way they do - after all, most ex-pats can only just about order a beer in Spanish.  What does get my goat is other sites and "news sources" who simply copy and paste their stories and rarely give credit to their sources.


    orange

    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010 »
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  • "What does get my goat is other sites and "news sources" who simply copy and paste their stories and rarely give credit to their sources."

    It shouldn't do, news normally only comes from one source. Press release, News Agency, Independent Reporter etc.

    It is then left to journalists to massage the facts into the style of the newspaper and sometimes
    to make it interesting and readable.

    You will normally see credit to an agency or the press association. More to do with being held
    responsible for that particular news story should it be inaccurate.

    Depending on the story and time, less is going to be changed.

    Press Pictures are a great example of sharing the same - they then crop them to look different (sometimes).

    Offline Mr Max

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    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010 »
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  • I'm fully aware of how the news system works having worked in broadcasting almost all of my life. 

    What I actually said is that it is annoying, especially for those who do the hard work - in this case translating, when copy is pasted onto other sites - especially forums, without credit for those who have actually done more than a couple of right-clicks on a mouse, not even bothered to re-write and in doing so appear to take the credit.

    For the avoidance of any doubt however, full credit to PP the original poster who rightly stated where this news came from.

    phoenix

    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010 »
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  • I must say that I was quite surprised to read the Janet Boscombe news report. It says that the mayor was found to be ? responsible? for a serious crime. However, it now transpires that all that has happened is that a lower court has decided that there is a case to answer, or in other words that there are sufficient grounds to charge him with the offence. But this is far from concluding that he is guilty.

    Any professional journalist reporting  court proceedings should take great care to get the facts right.  In the UK a news report published  during the course of proceedings which states that a defendant is guilty would be a serious contempt of court and the defendant could argue that because of such a prejudicial report he could not get a fair trial before a jury.  Janet Boscombes report could at best be described as sloppy journalism. In contrast, the News in the Sun report  was  professionally written by a very professional journalist who understands the legal system and took care to get  his facts right. Well done to Peter Jay.

    I must add that the grown up attitude shown by this website to  the mention of other websites is  welcomed. Well done to this website's administrator. Or have I spoken too soon?
    « Last Edit: January 25, 2010 by phoenix »

    orange

    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010 »
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  • You could use the word responsible in this context.

    Its the 'Guilty' title of the Subject that changes the meaning.

    But this is an informal forum not the BBC...


    Offline Mr Max

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    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010 »
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  • Firstly, Janet's name is Anscombe not Boscombe.

    Secondly, as I tried to explain in a previous post, her site does not profess to be a news site as such, it more akin to a blog where she will record things she reads and hears on Spanish media as time progresses. 

    The use of the word Guilty was perhaps a little strong however, I don't think you will find she uses that word herself on her web site, I think you will find it was used on another forum.  In any event it doesnt detract from the fact that the Judge in the first stage trial has determined that those involved do have a case to answer - in many ways that is a pretty monumental decision in itself and an indication of a long needed changing attitude

    phoenix

    Re: Guilty!
    « Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010 »
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  • I am not familiar with the Spanish legal system - whether the process in question is inquisitorial or accusatorial. The purpose of the process is either to determine who (if anyone)  is responsible for the manslaughter of the individuals who lost their lives or specifically whether the mayor is responsible. ?Responsible? in both contexts is unambiguous, it means guilty and it makes not a jot of difference whether you produce a news website or publish it in a blog. 


    orange

    Re: Could be Guilty!
    « Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010 »
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  • I would doubt that in the time since this tragic incident. That any report, other then the
    most basic has been produced. Even down to sourcing an expert to argue a defence.

    This would certainly be the case in the UK.

    Being Found Guilty is a verdict.

    Being guilty is not the same as being responsible as the former indicates a degree of wrong doing (tort).

    There is a case to answer and they are responsible to answer it. That is the context I see this matter in.

    phoenix

    Re: Could be Guilty!
    « Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010 »
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  • What are you on Orange and who is your supplier?
    Send me a PM. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

    orange

    Re: Could be Guilty!
    « Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010 »
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