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Offline Chiquita

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Action on illegal holiday lettings
« on: December 16, 2010 »
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  • This is causing a great deal of discussion on another forum

    >> El Dia yesterday announced El Gobierno buscar? el pr?ximo a?o las 400.000 camas ilegales http://www.eldia.es/2010-12-15/canarias/canarias15.htm

    The Government next year will seek out the 400,000 "illegal beds" ... in fact the report says the 400,000 beds are touristic and there are also 650,000 "clandestine" beds in the Canary Islands which presumably refers to residental complexes where holiday letting is prohibited except to "family & friends"

    17 inspectors will work for the next year on the project.

    If you are in the market for an apartment you also plan to let out, you really must take this into your calculations.<<<

    orange

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010 »
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  • At least this is not being discounted as a rumour...

    Offline cs

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010 »
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  • apartments and villas are advertised all over the place so can anybody tell me how do you know if its an illegal or a legal rental?

    Offline Chiquita

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010 »
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  • If it is on ?touristic complexes? where short term letting is legal providing the correct procedures are followed, then it?s going to be about owners who don?t register or pay income tax.   If it is on residential complexes then the chances are it is illegal as these do not normally allow for short term/holiday rentals.

    Offline ANGIE

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010 »
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  • This is an amazing undertaking for the appropriate authorities to try and tackle! Round the Puerto Santiago/Los Gigantes area alone there must be thousands of people 'illegally' renting out and within residential complexes there must be owners who suddenly expand their 'family' to include all sorts of people who rent their apts.  Will this be tackled with the same 'hit and miss' accuracy as the Swimming Pool Police who were supposed to inspect all complexes with pools to ensure H and S laws were being adhered to ? Will it be interpreted by the authorities in the same airy fairy way that noise in residential areas is?  ie if you're Spanish you can do pretty much as you like regarding noise legislation, but if you're not Spanish expect to be dealt with severely?  Will it be clamped down on as half-heartedly as the illegal taxi drivers plying their trade to and from the airport undercutting hard-up taxi drivers trying to make an honest living and complying with the insurance laws, registration requirements etc? Whilst there are an awful  lot of people making money in this way, I wonder how strict and how effectively this law can be policed.

    orange

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010 »
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  • All the examples you give need physical presence to deal with. But the start of this can be done with
    simple searches on the internet. Matters printed out, stored if necessary. Then it can be decided where to strike.

    With 17 dedicated people on this and the political build up, the damage (perceived or not) to the licensed
    Tourist Industry. I would imagine 'raids' are going to be big news, as will the fines (particularly on the community).

    No they can't be everywhere - but they will be somewhere...



    Offline Mr Max

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010 »
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  • and they need the money ....

    grockle

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010 »
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  • Informative post Angie and Mr Max has probably hit the nail well and truly on the head.
    Ah well, all of mankind is one family really....

    orange

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011 »
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  • This is not going to be difficult for the Inspectors.

    Excluding Hotel Status - this is the List of Apartments with Touristic Licence in Santiago del Teide:

    Club La Mar
    Colonial Parque
    Diamante 
    El Marques
    El Sombrero
    Harbour Club I 
    Harbour Club II
    Lago 
    Las Rosas
    Poblado Marinero 
    Punta Negra 
    Sunflower II
    Tamaimo Tropical 
    Vigilia Park

    Offline ANGIE

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011 »
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  • What about Sunset in Puerto Santiago? I understood that is classed as touristic?

    wizard

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011 »
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  • Well if they stop the illegal lettings in Los Gigantes I expect that there will be no customers for the shops or the restaurants . I think thats called shooting yourself in the foot . Bravo !! >:(

    Offline Chiquita

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011 »
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  • Well if they stop the illegal lettings in Los Gigantes I expect that there will be no customers for the shops or the restaurants . I think thats called shooting yourself in the foot . Bravo !! >:(

    Don?t really understand your post - are you saying it doesn?t matter whether something is legal or not as long as the shops/restaurants don't suffer?   What if a visitor was to have an accident, any insurance they may have would be invalid as the let is illegal, if they tried to claim from the owner their insurance would not want to know because they were doing something illegal and let's face it accidents happen, children fall from balconies, run through windows, slip by pools.  Doesn?t bear thinking about :o

    wizard

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011 »
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  • No I am not condoning illegal letting I was merely pointing out that stopping illegal letting is not the practical way of dealing with the situation it needs a much more detailed approach so that the life giving tourist industry is not obliterated by this action. A more sensible approach would be to look at ways of licensing any apartment blocks that wish to apply and give practical and understandable advice on how this may be achieved.

    orange

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011 »
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  • Sunset - Sorry not on Government List.

    There is no shortage of official occupancy - they are not looking to issue more Licences to create more occupancy.

    Offline ANGIE

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011 »
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  • Thanks Orange - most interesting - we were always assured by our administrator that our building was indeed touristic.

    Offline linda

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011 »
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  • Where is diamante?

    orange

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011 »
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  • Calle Tabaiba

    poolepirate

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011 »
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  • I note that the Balcon Los Gigantes does not appear on the touristic list so must be residential. It does appear on many websites as being one that has a large number of apartments available for short time rental. Surely this cannot be right.

    Also the pools do not appear to be fenced. I must have missed the lifeguards.

    orange

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #18 on: January 20, 2011 »
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  • One of my friends rented there.

    There was one lifeguard - but there are two pool areas and you can only see one of them at a time.

    The hours of opening when a lifeguard is on duty are not displayed either.

    There is no fencing and young children were running about - sometimes in the dark.

    It is an incident waiting to happen. As for the renting that is another matter.

    Offline ANGIE

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #19 on: January 20, 2011 »
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  • Thanks Orange for such great information, it is very interesting indeed and, yes, there are many adverts for the Balcon apts appearing on the web and locally.  Also in Puerto Santiago where we live, in our road alone there are three apt blocks not on your residential list, who rent out, and another three that come to mind immediately in the vicinity doing a good trade in rentals, again not featured on your list.

    What a massive difference this policing policy will make if it is carried out.

    Offline janey

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #20 on: January 21, 2011 »
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  • in our road alone there are three apt blocks not on your residential list, who rent out, and another three that come to mind immediately in the vicinity doing a good trade in rentals, again not featured on your list.

    What a massive difference this policing policy will make if it is carried out.

    indeed it will make a massive difference to los gigantes and its surrounding area. in fact it will kill it. 

    along with all the apartment prices..... regardless of residential/non residential claims.

    noticed royal sun?  another few blocks to join it.......   

    a lot of people to lose money on property prices, and business for restaurants/bars/shops? ouch.

    big hit for the resort.  forget the novo virus, the resort will die anyway.


    Offline Chiquita

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #21 on: January 21, 2011 »
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  • in our road alone there are three apt blocks not on your residential list, who rent out, and another three that come to mind immediately in the vicinity doing a good trade in rentals, again not featured on your list.

    What a massive difference this policing policy will make if it is carried out.

    indeed it will make a massive difference to los gigantes and its surrounding area. in fact it will kill it. 

    along with all the apartment prices..... regardless of residential/non residential claims.

    noticed royal sun?  another few blocks to join it.......   

    a lot of people to lose money on property prices, and business for restaurants/bars/shops? ouch.

    big hit for the resort.  forget the novo virus, the resort will die anyway.

    I would imagine that there is enough spare capacity in Hotels and tourist complexes to compensate for the loss, the knock on effect could be that many will be able to afford to improve their facilities and attract a better (those willing to spend more) type of tourist.

    I would also imagine that anyone wanting to sell on a touristic complex will make money from those wishing to let legally.  And those who chose to live on a residential complex to get away from the tourists will have the peace and quiet they paid for.

    If the only reason people bought was to let illegally then IMO tough - so many have got away with it for so long and because it is illegal they have also not been paying their taxes - hopefully now is payback time.

    Offline Falstaff

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #22 on: January 24, 2011 »
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  • Chiquita, you  imagine a lot.  People say you're a dreamer  but you're not the only one.

    It's time you snapped out of you imaginary world end re-joined the real one.

    If fewer people rent ?illegal? apartments it doesn't mean they will transfer to the legal sector in Los Gigantes.  They may go elsewhere.

    Just imagine for a moment what would happen  if the tourists who occupy ?illegal? self catering apartments  were to no longer  frequented your restaurant.   Just imagine for a moment that they were to transfer to  half board and all inclusive hotels.  What would happen to your restaurant business then?  I imagine it could be fatally damaged.

    You also give me the impression that tourist who occupy ?illegal? apartments are not welcome in your restaurant because you disapprove of their choice about where to stay. Why not put a notice on the door to this effect.

    If rigidly enforced this law has the potential to close down Los Gigantes which has a great number of privately rented apartments. There is a real possibility that the market will be flooded with people trying to sell and property prices would could collapse still further.  

    So  how will this law be enforced?  Seventeen inspectors could effectively do it and without leaving their offices.  All they need to do is search on the internet  for holiday apartments in say Los Gigantes.  A search on this website would  be a good start (and reading this thread  will be a great help to them too).

    Will apartment owners continue to advertise on this website? Many will not because it leaves a paper trail to their "illegal" holiday apartments.  So it could even threaten the viability of this website which does such a good job of promoting your business Chiquita.
    « Last Edit: January 24, 2011 by Falstaff »

    Offline dablar

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #23 on: January 24, 2011 »
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  • the driving force behind this purge isn't to " close  resorts down " but to collect the taxes that the " illegal " lettings are avoiding paying.

    grockle

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #24 on: January 24, 2011 »
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  • Didn't we used to have to pay a tax along these lines before regardless of whether a property was let or not??
    I don't think that is debited from my account anymore along with all the other taxes and charges in existence these days!

    This sort of thing is a prime target for The Enforcers - (a) a private apartment won't be 'authorised' for touristic use - presumably a paid licence is needed and (b) there will be income tax to be paid on any rental income.

    Bearing in mind the state of Europe, the euro and the Spanish banks this is not something that will be going away...

    Just as an aside, flight prices to come out to Tenerife in the school holidays have rocketed upwards even further! It is quite feasible to get a holiday elsewhere for the price of a couple of return flights. Supply and demand I am sure, but the demand may wane.

    Offline Chiquita

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #25 on: January 24, 2011 »
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  • Chiquita, you  imagine a lot.  People say you're a dreamer  but you're not the only one.

    It's time you snapped out of you imaginary world end re-joined the real one.

    If fewer people rent ?illegal? apartments it doesn't mean they will transfer to the legal sector in Los Gigantes.  They may go elsewhere.

    Just imagine for a moment what would happen  if the tourists who occupy ?illegal? self catering apartments  were to no longer  frequented your restaurant.   Just imagine for a moment that they were to transfer to  half board and all inclusive hotels.  What would happen to your restaurant business then?  I imagine it could be fatally damaged.

    You also give me the impression that tourist who occupy ?illegal? apartments are not welcome in your restaurant because you disapprove of their choice about where to stay. Why not put a notice on the door to this effect.

    If rigidly enforced this law has the potential to close down Los Gigantes which has a great number of privately rented apartments. There is a real possibility that the market will be flooded with people trying to sell and property prices would could collapse still further.  

    So  how will this law be enforced?  Seventeen inspectors could effectively do it and without leaving their offices.  All they need to do is search on the internet  for holiday apartments in say Los Gigantes.  A search on this website would  be a good start (and reading this thread  will be a great help to them too).

    Will apartment owners continue to advertise on this website? Many will not because it leaves a paper trail to their "illegal" holiday apartments.  So it could even threaten the viability of this website which does such a good job of promoting your business Chiquita.


    What business?  What restaurant?  I think you presume too much and it also sounds as if you support those who don?t pay their taxes, and rent illegally thus putting others at risk by not being insured should there be any sort of accident, are happy to make use of their community pools and facilities while paying the same community fees as those who live there, and who cannot use the facilities because they are overrun with tourists and have to suffer more noise than they originally signed up for.

    However it would be too presumptuousness of me to assume that you were renting accommodation on a residential complex. ;)

    Offline Falstaff

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #26 on: January 24, 2011 »
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  • Chiquita, there are many people who have bought holiday apartments in the area, principally for themselves but in order to fund their purchase they let their  apartments out to tourists.  Although it may not be recognised in law as tourist accommodation there can be no presumption that any of these people are not paying taxes. Where is your evidence?

    If an apartment lies within a complex which is not legally authorised for tourism and this, as you claim, ruins it for other occupants, then clearly it is a matter for the Community to deal with. With all due respect, it is no business of  yours or mine.

    On the issue of insurance, like most other responsible tourists I have my own. Why do you presume that apartment owners  do not have insurance?  Where is your evidence?

    Incidentally I have stayed in many self catering apartments in Los Gigantes and all of them are on ?the Orange list? so I have no self  interest to protect.

    I imagine that it is you and not I who presumes too much.

    Finally, my belief  that it was your business that you were promoting arises out of a perception created by you through your reference to your recruiting staff. My argument stands irrespective of  who owns the business you are promoting and I note that you have not attempted to challenge its rationale.

    Good luck with your promotion. Hope you get staffed. ;D ;D ;D :o

    Offline Chiquita

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #27 on: January 24, 2011 »
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  • Chiquita, there are many people who have bought holiday apartments in the area, principally for themselves but in order to fund their purchase they let their  apartments out to tourists.  Although it may not be recognised in law as tourist accommodation there can be no presumption that any of these people are not paying taxes. Where is your evidence?

    If an apartment lies within a complex which is not legally authorised for tourism and this, as you claim, ruins it for other occupants, then clearly it is a matter for the Community to deal with. With all due respect, it is no business of  yours or mine.

    On the issue of insurance, like most other responsible tourists I have my own. Why do you presume that apartment owners  do not have insurance?  Where is your evidence?

    Incidentally I have stayed in many self catering apartments in Los Gigantes and all of them are on ?the Orange list? so I have no self  interest to protect.

    I imagine that it is you and not I who presumes too much.

    Finally, my belief  that it was your business that you were promoting arises out of a perception created by you through your reference to your recruiting staff. My argument stands irrespective of  who owns the business you are promoting and I note that you have not attempted to challenge its rationale.

    Good luck with your promotion. Hope you get staffed. ;D ;D ;D :o

    It is hard to challenge rationale as you put it before you have made your comments.  However now they are made I would say

    a) If an owner has insurance (and I assume most if not all have) by renting illegally they render the insurance null and void.  Anyone with half a brain knows that insurance companies look for any excuse not to pay so if the rental is illegal they have their get out clause.  Similarly with the holiday-makers travel insurance, if there is a claim made specifically with regard to accident or whatever on the property they will expect the owners insurance to sort, not the holiday insurance.

    b) Regarding the paying of taxes - do the owners go to the hacienda and say I want to pay my tax although I shouldn?t have been renting my property in the first place?

    c) As you say it is neither your nor my concern how a community is run but when discussing the reasons why illegal lettings are being looked at surely this is also one of the areas to be considered.  If I was to have bought on a Residential complex, I would hope it was for residents only and not to be filled with holiday makers who are enjoying themselves until all hours when there are people also living there who have to spend their days at work and need their sleep.  It is selfish, as well as illegal of those who rent only to consider themselves and not the people it affects as presumably they are not on the complex but living in the UK or elsewhere in Europe.

    d) I have not need to provide you with evidence of anything - I am not implementing the law, presumably those who are will have all the evidence they need.

    Finally and I make no apologies for my opinion  If people cannot afford the payments on property they wish to buy then they should look for somewhere they can afford, it is no excuse to say I will have it and be damned even though I know I am breaking the law.

    With regard to who owns businesses and who does their recruitment for them, I am beginning to suspect we may have had this conversation before - if so you will be aware of the outcome ;)

    Offline janey

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    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #28 on: January 25, 2011 »
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  • well said falstaff.

    i should think all enterprising, hard working business people in los gigantes and the surrounding towns are dismayed at the line this thread is taking. 

    the area is beautiful, has a lovely atmosphere and lots to offer.

    cordshoes

    Re: Action on illegal holiday lettings
    « Reply #29 on: January 25, 2011 »
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  • On this issue, i'm with the practicaliy of the Falstaff input rather than the preaching judgement of the Chuiquita input.